http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineus...6/usa-gayrights

California have voted yes to Proposition 8. All gay marriages are effectively null and void. What are your views? Why is it possible that this discrimination still exists? Would you have voted yes or no?

Of course I would have voted no. I feel almost sad I live one state above California, because I would have liked to vote against it. I'm disappointed in California, but they are winning back my respect because I'm hearing a lot about protests. Tegan Quin of Tegan and Sara was in California yesterday to help protest.

As I told a friend of mine who lives in California,

"The way I think about it... We have to make sacrifices. Democrats are owning the House and the Senate too. As a gay person, I am willing to wait a little bit longer for my rights, there are more important things going on. As much as I really wish Prop 8 wouldn't pass, if it does, I think in the end we will be better off because of the way big government is looking. Even though I don't live in Cali, if this was going in my state, I would feel the same as I do now. Hey look on the bright side, this is an amazing point in history and all we can do is think about the future. More chances will come up to overturn Prop 8."

I said this before it was official though. But I still feel the same.

Sadly the messege it's clear,discrimination still very much a life in this country ! but at least I'm proud of the city that i live in ! read the link!

this is how people voted in San Francisco !

link
http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8results/?...=76146188684214

I live in California and I am going to be honest with you, I voted Yes On prop 8. Why? you ask, because it's not their right to be married, if God would have wanted women to marry women he wouldnt have made adam and viceversa. Marriage is sacred and it should only be between a man and a women.

Also, because When i have kids, I dont want the school system to say that it's madatory to teach them that they can marry the same gender. What I teach my child is up to me. Children need a father and a mother, a girls look up to their father, which i may add that the father is the first male figure in her life that she will look up to, who will giver her the conifidence that she needs and raise her self-esteem. While a boy's first female figure in his life is his mother.

And the third reason, this was forced upon us. We didnt get to choose until now what we want for our state. Obviously, Cali has spoken.

BTW, I know you're going to be bashing on me. I dont hate gays or lesbians, and it's not even about discrimination. IT's about what's morally right. You may also say that I'm closed minded.

It's my opinion and my beliefs and I'm entitled to them.

no bashing from me ! that is your opinion and I respect it ! i do believe strongly in equality and freedom for all ! besides who the hell are we to tell anybody who they can marry or who they can't not ? and what it bothers me a lot is why people have to put god on this issue, sounds kind of prehistoric to me ! but to each his own ! this is just my opinion! Paz :)

Tbh I don't think you will get any bashings on this forum, even from me :lol: ;) You're right, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I don't know if you're missing this whole part of the want for gay "marriage", but it is actually about the legal rights. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the church, but not allowing two partners to see each other in the hospital, or get the same tax benefits, or the right to adopt a child, is discrimination. As far as I know, it's each individual church's right to marry a couple under God, or to not, but it's the state that decides the ability to grant the same legal standings as a straight couple.

I apologize in advance if this doesn't make sense, I'm in the middle of an online match on Xbox Live :lol:

Sad times for California.

Good times for stupidity.

If it wasn't for the "activist judges," I would never get to go to any other college but a historically black college. I never would have been able to attend a school with white kids.

Frankly, I don't care what you teach your kids. But to deny me the right to marry someone that I love, because of your outdated views on homosexuality and marriage, is insulting. If I have kids, I should be able to raise MY kids in a stable environment in a marriage that is state-sanctioned, only because then, I'd have the rights given by the government to not have to give up my kids in case something happens to my wife.

This isn't about morality at ALL. This is about equal rights under the law. Giving me the right to marry, has nothing to do with your church or whatever. I don't WANT to get married in your church. You can have those. This is about the GOVERNMENT not denying rights just because I love someone of the same sex.

how about that ! :blink:

link to the article
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../MNH413UTUS.DTL

It amazes me that a country that calls itself the land of the free...Is more backwards in that respect than some European countries that we consider backwards...And those countries have same sex marriages.

Frankly; to pass a law; an actual law, to ban it's own citizens from doing exactly what any other citizen can do; simply based on a fact of nature's selection of who they are...Digusting.

I feel ashamed...

Not agreeing with another person's choice of "lifestyle" or whatever you want to call it, is perfectly okay with me. You can ignore them all you want, cross the street to avoid them, tp their house on mischief night, fine. Using the government and the law to force them to act the way you want them to is monstrous. The law is not supposed to be used to make us all alike, think the same way or make us all best friends and like each other...it's to keep as many of us alive to see the end of the day as possible. There should never have even been a vote on this subject, nor a law against it or for it. The only marriage any person in this country has a say in, is their own. To demand that they have a say in another person's marriage, that you disagree with what they are doing and that the big bad government should force them to stop on your behalf, is evil. I hear people saying that, this is not something that God would have wanted (says so right in the book). Let me tell you what I believe; God loves all of us, his teachings are not meant to divide us, to be used against one another, no person living or dead has the moral right to tell another how they should live if they are truly living as their heart tells them to do.

I think my position on this will be clear. I think it (Proposition 8) is stupid, outdated and highly discrimanatory. As Madam Tampini said earlier, this is about legal rights primarily. In the UK, same sex marriage is allowed. It's called a civil union, if i remember rightly, but it allows couples to have the same rights. This is what the majority of people want, just the right to be seen as a couple in a committed relationship who love each other and not having to worry that if they're in an accident, they will need to leave their loved one with nothing.

The way I see it is that straight couples can marry with no problems, pop down to Vegas and you're done. Yet so many people just crap on their vows, divorce after x amount of time. Where is the sanctity in that? How is that making marriage sacred? At least give gay couples the chance to be married, to have that security. It's not asking for kids to be taught that gay marriage is the done thing, just that people can make choices. When I have children, if i am blessed to do so, I will teach them that the world is made of different individuals and that all are equal.

It is narrow minded views like yours that can escalate into hate crimes. There would be uproar if a black child was killed by a white child or a Jewish child was killed by a Christian. But when Lawrence King was killed by a classmate, there was barely a rumble. It may seem unrelated, but by not allowing gay couples to share a norm given to the rest of the population, they are seen as outsiders and deviants, making them prime targets for discrimination and abuse.

As for your argument about God creating Adam and Eve, whilst I respect your beliefs, I do feel that you are picking and choosing your faith. Whilst this is supposedly true, that God created Adam and Eve, in the bible it also says "Love thy neighbour" and "Do unto others as you would have do to you." Basically be nice, tolerant and accepting. Your views are discriminating against another group. You may not believe their way of life is right but it is a life that they lead. In my eyes, no one is born homosexual or bisexual, why would someone choose to be in a group so regularly discriminated against?

I'm afraid your argument about a child needing a father figure who is actually their father is pretty redundant as well. I know many single mothers who have raised their children to be well adjusted and capable people, without the direct need of a tradition father figure. Whilst some may argue that this is the "norm", that every child should have 'daddy' in their life, how can you justify that to someone who lost their father when they were young? Same applies for children raised by a lone father.

I accept that this is your view and yes you are entitled to them. I also doubt a few people on this public forum will change your mind. However, it's worth thinking whether you have substantial reasons for disagreeing with something that doesn't directly affect you.

Ok hold up a sec. Hopefully I can provide some balance here. HOPEFULLY, lol.

I agree with the majority here's perspectives and I would have voted No on Prop 8 were I a voting Californian, but let's not call others' perspectives stupid. Calling someone else narrow-minded b/c they feel differently than you is just as narrow-minded. Also, to judge someone as un-Christian b/c they don't fit the bill of what YOU find Christian is JUST as bad as them judging you for what THEY find un-Christian. So do you see the hypocrisy there? A wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world." so while it's frustrating to be open to someone who may not be open to you, it's the right thing to do if you truly stand for what you say. Also, saying she HAS to give you a reason that's not religious based is unfair. Why does it matter if it's religious based? You have no more right to infringe on her freedom of religion than she does your freedom to marry if you are gay. See my point?

I think we've reached the point where courts and elections now decide who's "rights" are more important. Take slander vs freedom of speech. Pro-life vs pro-choice. And so on. But at the end of the day, it's all the individual. And it's all a matter of opinion. That's what makes this country great after all. Saying "I disagree with your lifestyle and won't support it." is far different from saying "You disgust me and I want you to die." As long as no one says the latter, which they haven't in this forum, then we're all good here and should avoid namecalling or else it's just a complete hypocrisy. I know it's hard, I've been there....fighting what I perceive to be negative people, but to fight negativity with negativity solves absolutely NOTHING. Defending is one thing, attacking is another. It's taken me hitting my head against a metaphoric wall many times to finally learn that.

Seeing each others' sides is key to unity, even if you never agree. You CAN co-exist peacefully with people you disagree with. Heck, you can even love them. Shocking I know. ;) Just remember that and keep the peace. Carry on.

L.

P.S. Again, BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD. If you hate judgment, then don't judge. Do what you feel they refuse to do. If this perspective is embraced, then perhaps someday there will be true peace and love.

Leigh, I get what you're saying. But I wouldn't have even responded to this thread if this lady/guy didn't actually TAKE PART in denying my right to marry who I want if I decide to live in California.

I think that this is a completely different ball-game. It's not just her saying "homosexuality is bad, mmkay?" She VOTED to deny a whole GROUP of people EQUAL rights under the LAW.

And she based this vote on a LEGAL matter using her RELIGIOUS views. I mean, she just used her "right to religion" to DENY someone else EQUAL rights.

Of course she HAS to have a non-religious reason for voting no on this. That's because the US is supposed to have Separation of Church and State, but clearly this person doesn't realize that or doesn't care. This Proposition had NOTHING to do with her freedom of religion. No one ws gonna force any church to recognize gay marriage. But she chose to help violate the Constitution by basing this legal matter on her religious views.

Agreed Leigh, I may have stepped a little over the mark and it has been amended. It's just an issue that I feel strongly about and having spent time researching how Christianity can be used so negatively towards the LGBT community, it grates a little when people use this reason. I fully accept your right to your opinion, Isa_Nicole, I just don't agree with it. Reading back it would appear that I was calling your view stupid, this isn't the case, it was just poor quoting on my behalf. I was merely calling the actual proposition stupid.

See if it's the individuals choice, then surely such a proposition shouldn't exist as it takes away the individual choice. Obviously I realise that allowing the individual to choose everything they do, be it good or bad, opens a whole can of worms. However, marriage isn't a bad thing.

It's not even "grating" to me. It's completely unconstitutional.

But see here's the part that gets tricky. Yes, there's separation of church and state, but there's also freedom of religion. It's kind of contradictory actually and leads to this kind of a mess. B/c freedom of religion entails acting on it, making decisions based on it, etc yet at the same time you're not supposed to! The founding fathers were a bit conflicted on that one, lol.

Anyway I completely and totally understand your anger, but legalities and annoyingly conflictive legal documents aside, there is a bigger picture, and that's love. And if you believe in love like you obviously do, then show it even when others absolutely refuse to show it to you. THAT was my point, not to defend her perspective at all b/c I disagree with it, rather to get people to not hate when they themselves do not want to be the recipient of hate. Two wrongs don't make a right, or a left I should say. ;)

L.

You're right, Leigh. *sighs*

I needed to be reminded on the Love part.

"How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours. - Wayne Dyer, PhD"

It's all love now.

Right on. Be firm, but be love. ;)

L.

Aye, but it makes a good debate/argument just fizzle out. Just j/k :P

LOL. Yes but see that's when my awesome and massively entertaining soda vs pop thread comes in handy. That is just hours of fun right there.

L.

Gay marriage supporters march in SF

Friday, November 7, 2008


(11-07) 18:38 PST San Francisco, CA (AP) --

A crowd of protesters angered by the passage of a state measure banning gay marriage marched through downtown San Francisco during rush hour, carrying signs and snarling traffic.

About a 1,000 protesters marched down Market Street on Friday to voice their angst over the passage of Proposition 8, which would amend the California Constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman. Prop. 8 overrides a state Supreme Court ruling that briefly gave same-sex couples the right to wed.

Walking with a sign that reads "You gave rights to chickens and took away rights from human beings," 42-year-old Lisa Davis of Alameda said she planned on proposing marriage to her same-sex partner during the march.

Meanwhile, gay rights groups and same-sex marriage proponents have filed three court challenges against the ban.

A friend of mine that I graduated with who now lives in LA was at the huge one in WeHo yesterday. Said he marched for like 6 hours.

L.

good for him ! I just hope that they continue to do this ,I've been listening to the radio here reading the papers and I have the feeling that people voted yes on prop 8 for the wrong reasons ! it have to be another way to solve this ! :)

The Governator; Ah-nold Schwarzenegger, has asked the California courts to overturn Prop. 8.

Guess, Maria Schriver has locked him outta the bedroom again... :rolleyes:

^

*snorts*

Anyway, Melissa Etheridge's response to Proposition 8 passing:

"Okay. So Prop 8 passed. Alright, I get it. 51% of you think that I am a
second class citizen. Alright then. So my wife, uh I mean, roommate?
Girlfriend? Special lady friend? You are gonna have to help me here because
I am not sure what to call her now. Anyways, she and I are not allowed the
same right under the state constitution as any other citizen. Okay, so I am
taking that to mean I do not have to pay my state taxes because I am not a
full citizen. I mean that would just be wrong, to make someone pay taxes
and not give them the same rights, sounds sort of like that taxation
without representation thing from the history books.

Okay, cool I don't mean to get too personal here but there is a lot I can
do with the extra half a million dollars that I will be keeping instead of
handing it over to the state of California. Oh, and I am sure Ellen will be
a little excited to keep her bazillion bucks that she pays in taxes too.
Wow, come to think of it, there are quite a few of us fortunate gay folks
that will be having some extra cash this year. What recession? We're gay! I
am sure there will be a little box on the tax forms now single, married,
divorced, gay, check here if you are gay, yeah, that's not so bad. Of
course all of the waiters and hairdressers and UPS workers and gym teachers
and such, they won't have to pay their taxes either.

Oh and too bad California, I know you were looking forward to the revenue
from all of those extra marriages. I guess you will have to find some other
way to get out of the budget trouble you are in.

When did it become okay to legislate morality? I try to envision someone
reading that legislation "eliminates the right" and then clicking yes. What
goes through their mind? Was it the frightening commercial where the little
girl comes home and says, "Hi mom, we learned about gays in class today"
and then the mother gets that awful worried look and the scary music plays?
Do they not know anyone who is gay? If they do, can they look them in the
face and say "I believe you do not deserve the same rights as me"? Do they
think that their children will never encounter a gay person? Do they think
they will never have to explain the 20% of us who are gay and living and
working side by side with all the citizens of California?

I got news for them, someday your child is going to come home and ask you
what a gay person is. Gay people are born everyday. You will never
legislate that away.

I know when I grew up gay was a bad word. Homo, lezzie, faggot, dyke.
Ignorance and fear ruled the day. There were so many "thems" back then. The
blacks, the poor ... you know, "them". Then there was the immigrants.
"Them.” Now the them is me.

I tell myself to take a breath, okay take another one, one of the thems
made it to the top. Obama has been elected president. This crazy fearful
insanity will end soon. This great state and this great country of ours
will finally come to the understanding that there is no "them". We are one.
We are united. What you do to someone else you do to yourself. That "judge
not, lest ye yourself be judged" are truthful words and not Christian
rhetoric.

Today the gay citizenry of this state will pick themselves up and dust
themselves off and do what we have been doing for years. We will get back
into it. We love this state, we love this country and we are not going to
leave it. Even though we could be married in Mass. or Conn, Canada,
Holland, Spain and a handful of other countries, this is our home. This is
where we work and play and raise our families. We will not rest until we
have the full rights of any other citizen. It is that simple, no fearful
vote will ever stop us, that is not the American way.

Come to think of it, I should get a federal tax break too..."

New star-studded Web video protests Proposition 8

"Prop 8 - The Musical" starring Jack Black, John C. Reilly, and many more...

Loved this. F*cking fantastic. :D

yeah the video is funny

I hope that one day people will accept gay mariage in your country as they accept it in my country
and I hope that one day as people stop to show homosexuals fingers as if they were plague and they stop juging .

leave their love all simply.

Resurrecting an old thread just to say....*siiiiigh*

California, I am disappointed.

That Vid Was Funny.

And Totally Agreed BekI.

P.S. Even If They'd Just Started Out With Recognizing Gay Marriages
Performed By Other States And Then Worked Their Way Up, I'd Be
Totally Happy.

*sigh*

I am so disappointed in my home state. What the hell Cali! First they screw us over with Arnold now this crap! Frak that! I'm moving to Vermont! My friend got married and now he and his husband are so heartbroken. They love California but it doesn't seem to love them back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DswPYeei_c8

Join The No H8 Campaign.

*Shakes Head*

Its screwed up man!!!


Minx

I have to say something.
I feel so angry when there are discriminations! Jesus! You can't choose with who you are going to fall in love! It's impossible, man!
A closed society kills love. :shakehead:

This is ridiculous. The whole P8 is ridiculous. Who the hell gave anybody in this world right to make people vote over something like that?! I'm asking, who do they think they are?!
Love is LOVE, for Christ's sake. If you love somebody and you wanna be with them, you should! It doesn't matter whether they are men or women. Nobody should be able to deny you the right!
It's not like gays/lesbians hurt anybody! They have a right to be with somebody they're in love with, just like everybody else does!
I say that if people wanna hear more about abusing in families, father beating his children and/or wife, mother getting drunk and not taking care of her kids, cheating and shit like that, then good for them. Coz let's face it, men and women spend like 70% of their lives on arguing and hurting each other constantly. There's usually more tears, than joy. Maybe two women know better what to expect from each other and how to treat one another. Same goes for men.
Sometimes I really feel like turning bisexual, seriously. It's not like I can do it by snapping my fingers, but seeing how most of so-called normal couples end up, I really wish I was born at least bisexual.
There is so much evil in this world, that I'm always happy to see some love, no matter who creates it.

That's my opinion and if I lived in California, I'd vote NO!!!!

Agreed. Definitely. Without A Doubt.

Honestly, I don't know where to being on this topic.

A small part of me is glad that for once that they put the decision of the hands of the people rather then in the government. However, at the same time I think it's utterly unfair. In this country we are a democratic-republic where both the majority and MINORITY is preserved and protected. Following only the majority without being through and high consideration I don't think this ruling protecting the minority over something as simple as marriage.

That being said:

In my eyes marriage is a fundamental right no matter who or what sexuality you are, and what government or religion you follow. I was brought up to respect everyone around me, no matter religion, color, or perspective views on things, but rather to try understand even though I may not agree, and leave it at that. I, myself, do not find myself fancying the same sex, but just because I don't, doesn't mean what my preferences of sexuality on the subject should control another person who may want to get married to a partner of the same-sex. It's not my job, or right, or business to impact someone's life and I really don't understand why other people don't get this either.

It's not a question of morality in the slightest. Morality goes out the window when people selfishly want to control another person's life to fit someone views, when really... when you think about it, it doesn't effect anyone but the parties involved, the people the actually want to get married. Other people are not being forced to fall into such behaviors, so really, what damage does marriage have on it? Aren't people entitled to happiness?

IMO, people need to turn and literally look away if they don't like it. You have a head. Use it. Turn and look away.

If people don't want to see it and don't want to hear about it, they forget no one's forcing them to watch and observe. Because again, it doesn't affect anyone other then the people who want to get married.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

^ Lol, thank you. :P

Chicolita = :rant:

Hehe. :D